All right, welcome back. I'm so excited for our episode today. We have an amazing guest, Nakia. I'm going to let her introduce herself and let's get to it. All right. Hi, everybody. Thanks for joining us today. I'm Dr. Nakia Smith. I'm a board-certified anesthesiologist, and I've been working in healthcare for over 10 years, so I have a lot to share. But overall, personally, I was burnt out not once but twice and had to recover and kind of rediscover who I am outside of my roles in medicine and live the life that felt good, not just that hustle working life of medicine and healthcare. So It is a journey and I'm happy to share with you my experience and any advice that I can give you that will help you do the same. Yeah, I love that. And like my background being nursing and also in healthcare and experiencing burnout within that, I feel like there was always this, like doing the things like going into healthcare, it's a helping profession. And I feel like you wanted to make an impact on others and help others and And then it just kind of seemed like it was always like chasing this thing that you never really truly defined like that.
Like, I feel like there's something more for me. I feel like I can make a bigger impact. I feel like I can do something differently, but like doing all the different things and then not finding that. So at what point was your kind of like feeling of that? Like, there's something else out there for me. I just don't know what it is. Or like, how did you start that? Like finding what your more look like for you? Yeah, that's a really good question. And that actually takes a long time as well because we're all sold this, right? We have so much... training and we have this process and it's like I'm going to do this take this test do this then do this and get this degree and so we're very regimented and we have like a really clear path to follow so it's easy to expect I have to just keep doing this next and next thing and you don't realize until you've kind of finished and they call it like arrival fallacy so I'm like oh I did medical school I did residency I did fellowship that I became an attending and I'm working as an attending and they're like oh you can become a program director and train trainees and do research and do all this stuff and I was like And so that was like the first time I realized that I didn't want to do that.
Like I liked being an attending. Yes. But I did not want it to be like an academic. So then it was like, okay, then now what? Like, you know, how do I work in medicine when I've been in academics this whole time? And that's the model that I saw. And that's what the expectation was. Yeah. So that was kind of the first step that there was something different or more for me. I didn't know what it quite was at that point, but that's when I was like, okay, I at least know that I don't want to do research and become, you know, this academic person and present papers. And I was like, I just want to do my medicine job and then go home and do whatever else I want to do. And at that point, that was kind of more about like discovering hobbies. I think a lot of us do have a lot of hobbies, but in like back in the day, but then as we go during the schooling, the hobbies go to the wayside. You're not reading for fun anymore. You're not doing these things because you have so much studying and testing to do.
So it started with just me starting like to read for fun and to like just do things that just felt fun and didn't feel out of obligation. And that ended up being like reading and dancing for me at first. So like just like reading fun, like crappy romance novels or just anything like, okay, yes. You know, like I have to always be like learning or self-improving. I can just read something that's just entertaining and relax while I do it. I think that's huge. I, myself included, but so many clients and people that I talk to are as adults, like, don't have any hobbies. Like, what are you interested in? And they're like, I don't know. Well, in high school, it's like, well, that was, like, maybe, like, 10 or 15 years ago. So, like, what have you done recently that actually, like, you know, sparks your interest, your joy of, like, wow, this is something that is genuinely just for my overall fun and enjoyment. And I think it's so true. You just kind of get in the, like, the hamster wheel of like, this is the next step.
This is the next step. This is the next step. And I was, my story being very similar to that with like going into nursing, I kind of wasn't like a, I was made to be a nurse kind of person. I was like this path that I fell into. Um, And then everyone's like, oh, well, you're so smart. You should, you know, go get your, you know, go become a nurse practitioner, get your DNP, go to CNA school. And like, I literally even got into the process of like applying. And then I was like, I don't even want this. But this was just like what everyone is saying that, you know, oh, you're so smart. They like tell, which is, you know, lovely compliment. Thank you very much. But it's so easy to get caught up in what everybody else is saying you should do. Yes. So what would you say is kind of like that wake up call of like, whoa, we've got a little farther into I'm doing everything that everyone else wants me to do, not what I want to do. It was a quote. I think, I can't remember who it was. I want to say it's like Stephen Covey.
It's like one of those like old school, but it was like, you're climbing the ladder, but are you climbing up the right wall? And so, but like, it took a while. Like I was becoming this and I was doing all the things I was supposed to be doing. And it did take me longer than I would have liked to realize I didn't want to do that. But also I'm glad I discovered it then and didn't keep going down. So there is no like right time. But if you're feeling like a lot of resistance, like you said, like, do I really want this? But people keep telling you. So you keep pushing through. Like, I was just like, I actually just don't want to do this. Like I was in the middle of like writing up this stuff for a research paper and was like, actually, no, this is terrible. I don't want to do it. I felt really bad because I had a really great partner who was really excited about it. And I was just like, I can't, I can't muster the enthusiasm. I don't want to waste my time and energy doing this. And so it's like when you find yourself, you know, feeling resistance and having to like, I mean, sometimes there are things that you do want to do.
You still have to talk yourself into it, but like repeatedly, right? Like this is like, not like, oh, I don't want to go work out, but then I do want to like, this is not that like, this is like every time I was just like, oh my God, it felt so heavy. I was always procrastinating on it. And then I think that us like high achieving women, especially feel like, oh, I'm just procrastinating. And I'm like, sometimes you are procrastinating because you have to do it and you don't want to, but sometimes it's like, you don't want to do it and you don't have to do it. So it's like, you have to figure that out. Like, yeah, you have to do your taxes. We don't want to do it, but we have to do it. And we might, you know, procrastinate on that or whatever. Yeah. But like, these are some things that are like kind of elective, like that you don't really want to do like these committees and getting more degrees or doing this and that, these trainings and all the other stuff that we kind of get pushed into doing because we would be so good at it or we'd be great at leading this task force or whatever they want you to do.
Like if you're having a lot of resistance and you are procrastinating and you don't have to do it, I really want people to sit with that. Like, I don't want to do this and I don't have to do this. So just don't do it. Yeah. And that's how you start to find the time. And then you don't have time for joy, right? You're doing so many other things. Like you're on so many committees and you're doing all this extra stuff. That's not even part of your job that you don't actually even have time for the hobbies. Cause like, well, what am I going to do that? And I'm like, well, when you drop this meeting every week, then suddenly you have two hours of time for something that's fun. And that's how you kind of figure it out. But it does get hard because your schedule is so jam-packed that even if you want to do something for fun, you feel like you don't have the time. And then you feel like you don't even know what you would do. And it all just starts with knowing that you don't want to do this and building that time for yourself.
Absolutely. I think that's huge. It's so easy to to like have all of the things that we have expand to fill every second of time that we possibly have. So do you have any suggestions for people who are in that stage of like, okay, well now I know I want to spend more time with myself. I would love to have a hobby. I just don't have the time. Yeah. So like when I coach women, I do like, I have a phase called release and that's where we work mostly on this. And I, people have heard of things called like time audits where you kind of track what you're doing throughout the day and see if there's any dead time that you could be utilizing better. Right. But I also do an energy audit, which is kind of where you figure out where these draining meetings are going. Like you, how did you feel throughout the day? Well, throughout, right. I felt good until here. What happened here? I had this meeting. Like, is this a required meeting? Like, do you have to go? Can you call it in? Can you just watch? You know, the recording, like, is this something because when those energy sucks really get you and it can be a very short interaction that can suck your energy for the rest of the day.
So I do like to do time on audits and energy audits to get the big picture. And then after that, you can kind of see like, OK, if we release this here and combine this here, you now have a two hour chunk. And if you stop going to this meeting or rearrange this meeting to a different time. where it won't be such an energy drain, then we can have like an energized chunk. And so piece by piece, you release the things that drain you and kind of try to create pockets of time for yourself. And I'm not saying it happens overnight, but it happens because people will often say, well, I have like a little bit of time here, but it's not long enough to do anything. And it's like, yeah, you might have 15 minutes here, you might have 20 minutes here. And so it's like, if we can kind of rearrange your schedule in a way, which sometimes are things people don't ask, like, can we just change this meeting from Mondays to Thursdays? Like, that's a simple email. And then you can just see if that would work.
I'm not saying it always works, but you have to ask. Yeah, I think that's so important. Yeah. Because the awareness is huge, but we also have to take action on it. I don't know who made this analogy, but I love it. Where it's like you're literally like standing in your living room looking at the lawn and realizing there's weeds in the lawn. Seeing the weeds in your lawn from the living room doesn't make the weeds disappear. You have to actually go out and take them out. And I feel like it's the same with that. It's like recognizing there's a problem with your capacity, your energy, your time. is huge but we have to actually then go look like do that kind of audit see you know where am i spending all this time and i i think people also get stuck in that well i don't have a lot of time so i'm just gonna sit here and doom scroll or i'm just gonna watch an episode or something and it's like you know there's times and places for that where it is like you know what i just need to like decompress for a moment and that is a great way of doing it but there's just so much of us where we're like at that point of burnout exhausted where we're like i just need to numb my brain out and that is where we're spending when you look at it like if you have the scream time app and you look at it you've spent like 12 hours over the weeks like scrolling you're like wow that's a huge quantity of time and it's not like we're not perfect we can't just be like I'm going to cold turkey, cut this all out.
And I know it's now January, the new year, people are like new year's resolutions. But what if you took your 12 hours and made it six hours? Like that's a huge chunk of time that you spend doing a hobby and new activity, something that you genuinely. Yeah. Cause people, I think we also have that in our mind that it has to be a significant period of time for it to be a big impact. Right. But yeah, if you have a 10 minute break and it takes you two minutes to go outside, then you can just go outside for five minutes and walk around or just sit. And we'll hopefully if you're somewhere nice, but you know, like that 10 minutes could be spent outside. It could be spent just going up and down the flight of stairs. It doesn't have to just be on the phone. So people like, Oh, I don't have an hour to work out. I'm like, you have five, 10 minute breaks. So if every five, 10 minute break, you went up and down the stairs, you have your workout there. Like that's 15 minutes. So, So you don't need the whole chunk at the end of the day.
You could just take those breaks in between whatever you have and do that. And I'm like, you have to just think about it differently. But we do think kind of all or nothing in some aspects, like everything. We think all or nothing in everything. One thing that I've learned so much about the brain is like the brain is just so black and white. yeah and life is all gray but yeah like the way we look at it everything is all good or bad or it is like i need you know i i if i want to paint a picture i need the time to paint the entire picture like what if you just painted the grass yeah that's totally fine yeah um think that's like it's just all just so good to have people kind of stop and think as I said before it's like we just get stuck in this like the going about our day and we don't even recognize and shift so something you had said like before we got on this was like you really help people kind of realize that they're in that state of exhaustion overwhelm burnout kind of thing so What would you say for helping people kind of have that like wake up call of like, oh, maybe this is like the right time to start shifting this? Yeah, it's a process because I'd say a lot of us are willing to admit a lot of things, but we may not be willing to admit that we're in burnout.
Like, oh, we can admit that we're exhausted or that we have no capacity, that we're low energy, and maybe that we're a little bit more irritable than normal or a little bit more short tempered or forgetful or, you know, all of these things that are signs of burnout, but we're not like, oh, I'm burnt out. Um, even though it's becoming more popular, I still think that some women think of it as like a personal failure. And so I always am like, um, you can admit it. It's not like you did anything wrong if you're burnt out, but if you don't admit it, you're not going to like get out of it. And a lot of people like, well, if I just had a weekend off or had a week vacation, I'll feel better. And I'm like, but you have had a weekend off and you have had a week vacation. And you, did you come back feeling better? Cause I was there. I'm like, oh, after my vacation, I'll feel better. I came back. I felt exactly the same. You need a vacation from your vacation and then that vacation is a vacation and you're like, oh, maybe there is a problem.
Because like if the system that you've built like of hustling and overworking and perfectionism and external pressures from wherever you're working, all of those things compounded is what's going to cause your burnout. So when you leave and go on vacation, you're going to feel fine. And then right when you come step back into that arena, you're going to feel all that pressure again. And it's going to lead you back to burnout. So I always have this discussion with them. Like it's not a personal failure. It's how the system was created because this entire system of capitalism is meant to extract as much. from the workers as possible. And then especially in certain industries like healthcare and law and education, like teachers have a lot of burnout as well because they're functioning very high level with very low resources. And that's what a lot of us are doing. We're functioning at high levels with low resources and that leads to burnout no matter what you do. So the best thing is, to just, you know, after you admit it, it's just like, okay, how do I feel now? Like when I feel like I'm burnt out, how do I feel? Cause everybody feels differently.
So I can tell you, I felt burnout and how I felt it. And you'd be like, well, I'm not burnt out. I don't feel like that. And I'm like, okay, but do you feel like these other things? And they're like, yeah. So I'm like, that's still burnout. It could be different. And also there's as healthcare providers, we have like a lot of work-related burnout, but a lot of health care providers also have home related burnout. You know, we have a third ship.
